In this episode Josh talks with Jean Paul Paulynice from Paulynice Consulting. They discuss the wonderful world of recruiting people to your company and making sure you get the right person to join your company.

Jean Paul Paulynice is a small business strategist, motivational coach and bestselling author. Jean Paul is one of the country’s foremost speakers and writers with three books on leadership skills, purpose identification, and small business growth. He guides business owners on everything from operations, to financing, to marketing.

His latest book is From Idea to Reality: An Entrepreneur’s Guide to Meaningful Business Growth, which helps entrepreneurs with all elements of running a business.

In today’s episode you will learn:

  1. The types of small business growth strategies to have in place to protect your vision
  2. Why finding the right talent is key to running a successful organization
  3. What are the current challenges with the labor market shortage and how to overcome them
  4. How talent sourcing the right way is key to solid business growth
  5. Some Extreme, Quirky Or Unexpected Ways for Business Owners to Attract Employees To Their Next Job Opening


Narrator:          Welcome to The Sustainable Business Radio Show podcast where you’ll learn not only how to create a sustainable business but you’ll also learn the secrets of creating extraordinary value within your business and your life. In The Sustainable Business, we focus on what it’s going to take for you to take your successful business and make it economically and personally successful. Your host, Josh Patrick, is going to help us through finding great thought leaders as well as providing insights he’s learned through his 40 years of owning, running, planning and thinking about what it takes to make a successful business sustainable.

Josh:                  Hey, this is Josh Patrick. You’re at the Sustainable Business. Today, my guest is Jean Paul Paulynice. I think I got it right or close enough anyhow. Jean Paul is a small business strategist and a motivational coach. He’s written three books, but more importantly today we’re going to be talking about the wonderful world of recruiting people to your company and making sure you get the right person to join your company. Let’s bring Jean Paul on and we’ll get started.

Hey, Jean Paul, how are you today?

Jean Paul:          Doing great, fantastic. Thank you so much Josh for this opportunity. It’s a great opportunity to be part of your life. Facebook, I can imagine are you doing an excellent job and I’m hoping that my insights today will help some of your listeners.

Jean:                  It’s always nice. Let’s start off with this. I hear there’s a labor shortage out there and I can probably appreciate that. What would you do if you’re trying to hire somebody and you’re having a hard time?

Jean Paul:          Oh, absolutely. For my background as a business strategist working with small businesses and particularly medical groups on how it can help them with web solutions at the same time on business fence. We thought that my experience what I’ve learned is that we found what’s going on in the market now. It’s really hard for people to hire particularly small businesses.

Because when you’re talking about small businesses, there’s no way you can compete with larger businesses who have the infrastructure. They had the capital to go out there and hire and spend a lot of money to hire top qualities. Versus small businesses, you are in an area where your capital maybe not as big that as much but still you have to find a way to hire good people. For me experience, the first strategy I would use is try to join our Chamber of Commerce.

Josh:                  Why would you do that to hire people?

Jean Paul:          Exactly. That’s a one of the avenues that our people are not really thinking about. I would advise you if you’re listening today, it’s very good. Regardless of where you are, try to want to reach out to your local chamber of commerce, see if you can join.

Josh:                  They’ll let you join. There’s no doubt about that. They’re happy to take your dues, but why is joining the Chamber of Commerce couldn’t help me recruit good people to my firm?

Jean Paul:          With the Chamber of Commerce, they have an event going on. They had the key events going on. That’s where you might be able to tap into the resources. They have a large number of resources you can tap into. For example, the key thing is that how can you do what events. Let’s say you can reach out to the administrator see how can you do like a small presentation?

Josh:                  Yeah, but if I’m hiring a bookkeeper and I don’t see how the Chamber of Commerce you have to explain to me how a chamber commerce when I’m hiring a bookkeeper is going to help me get a bookkeeper?

Jean Paul:          With the Chamber of Commerce—first of all, [inaudible 00:03:49] they have entrance. They can help you. In the background, they can really, really help you to get that message out. Because number one is at the Chamber of Commerce they have the network you’re looking for. Network reaching out to other people in the area. People in the area know them. So if you want to join the Chamber of Commerce, if let’s say, a bookkeeper may have somebody was looking for a bookkeeper job and they might be able to connect you.

The reason why I’m saying this is for my personal experience. Working with small medical groups, when you join the Chamber of Commerce, you get to know more people doing the same thing you’re doing. When you’re not—two people doing the same thing you’re doing, they are able to connect you with a network. Maybe help you with the guidance on how can get the people looking for. At the same time, they may have people on their team. They may have somebody looking for a job.

Josh:                  I wouldn’t waste my time on that for a zillion years. I’ll tell you why. When I’m hiring somebody, I don’t need to be spending 15 hours going to networking events and hoping I get someone through the chamber commerce. If I’m going to recruit someone, I’ll just go to LinkedIn and start recruiting. I’ll put an ad up in Indeed and start recruiting there.

I mean, I don’t get why going to a Chamber— I mean when I’m trying to hire somebody. The one thing I can promise with all entrepreneurs is their time start. What you just laid out is a way for someone to go out and hire someone’s going to take 15, 20, 25 hours before we even get to conversation.

Jean Paul:          I agree. It’s not just hiring. Because when you’re part of it, you also get a benefit. The benefit are—

Josh:                  We’re not talking about benefit of chamber commerce, which I’m not hiring people right now.

Jean Paul:          Yes.

Josh:                  Let’s stay in hiring. I would disagree with you vociferously about using the Chamber’s hiring methodology. Total waste of time.

Jean Paul:          Another example for me is that I just saw hired in the interns. They did a phenomenal job helping me to recruit the best entrant in the local colleges because of their network.

Josh:                  Well, you know, I can go to I mean, there are lots of trade associations do interns. If I really wanted an intern, I’ll just call up a local college and say send me some interns.

Jean Paul:          Okay. Another example I would provide is to look into remote workers because we can outsource.

Josh:                  Yes.

Jean Paul:          Again, from my experience, there are some quick websites out there one of them is Upwork. I have found [inaudible 00:06:24] who are able to help us who are outsource we outsource at the same time, they are able to help us to scale up. This is a great avenue.

Josh:                  Of course a good place to go. I mean, there’s like nine zillion virtual assistant hiring boards right now. Upwork is certainly a good place to go. I’ve hired there several times and it works out very well. Upwork is really time efficient.

Jean Paul:          Okay. Lastly, what I really think it’s very important for any company out there is they find ways to showcase your passion. Nowadays, most business says they are so into—my bottom line, I want to improve revenue. But in that case this tend to move away from what they should be passionate about.

Like how did you want to showcase, how passionate you are about your culture can make a huge impact to the person you’re hiring. For example, you can also showcase it on social media. You can also do it on YouTube. It’s a powerful way to find.

Josh:                  How would you go about showcasing your culture? The audience for this show is primarily blue collar businesses. There are construction companies or manufacturing companies or distribution companies. You just said the word video and if I was to go to the people in these companies say, “I want you to start making videos.” They’re going to be really scared really fast.

Jean Paul:          Sometimes the things you have to do because it’s such you’re not ready not doing it. You don’t see yourself going into that route. For example, if you want to open a business, if you’re not used to it, there’s no way you can open a business. Just same thing with me being on the video with you that I feel like most— when you start thinking about the things that can really help you sometimes you have to move away from the traditional way. I think that says on it.

Josh:                  I’m all for that. I think that when you start recruiting people to your firm, you should be recruiting off your values. There’s no question about that. I can tell you that when I have my clients doing that, they get much better results and much better applicants for their company because they’re recruiting to their values, not whatever values somebody makes up.

Jean Paul:          Yes, exactly. The key point with the video is a good way to really showcase how well you are. People can really connect. You can make a personal connection with any applicants. They can see you behind the video at the same time they can see that you’re not bluffing. They can see that your village [inaudible 00:09:00] your organizations that how what your daily tasks especially for your daily tasks. The things that [inaudible 00:09:08]. When you start showing them on a video, people are more likely to take a chance at what you do.

Josh:                  So if I’m hiring somebody to go out and swing a hammer, where should I be showing their video?

Jean Paul:          Oh, exactly. For example, a good friend of mine just open a copy business and it constantly he is on Facebook. He’s on Facebook really showing his day to day life. Sometimes you may encounter some very intriguing aspects of his job that he feels that [inaudible 00:09:39.]. He just showcase it on his videos. Another thing is I simply move so [inaudible 00:09:44]. You can absolutely showcase examples. You can showcase those videos on Instagram and Facebook.

Josh:                  Yeah, I guess I mean I’m not sure how many carpenters hanging out on Instagram, but that’s always a possibility. What about LinkedIn?

Jean Paul:          LinkedIn, excellent question now. I don’t have so much experience with carpentry, but I would say that most people would not be— if you’re looking for a carpenter, you would not be going to [inaudible 00:10:08]. I might be wrong because the reason why you’re on LinkedIn you’ll find mostly on computer guys or people like management if I’m [inaudible 00:10:17]. I think that area may seem very different than our [inaudible 00:10:22] you see my day to day work dealing with home depot, dealing with our laws, things like that. So I would use not use LinkedIn.

Josh:                  What about the job boards like Indeed or Monster or those type of places?

Jean Paul:          Yes, I think that’s what most people would go to.  We have craigslist especially [inaudible 00:10:44]. I think there’s a chance you would sign up carpentry job there as well.

Josh:                  That’s where I would probably start there. If it didn’t work out, then I might go over to Facebook but the truth is Facebook, I’m putting stuff up on Facebook. I’m really hoping somebody shows up and sees my post. If I’m looking for a job, I want to be a little more specific.

The good thing about LinkedIn by the way is that I can actually reach out to people. I can send individual invites to folks saying, “Hey, I’m looking for a job connect with me, we’ll talk.” By the way, there are carpenters or electricians or plumbers. There are truck drivers. They all live on LinkedIn.

Jean Paul:          Yes, yes. I agree with you, but if I were to hire somebody soon, I think I make [inaudible 00:11:28] the last place I would job to. I think I will do it on Facebook maybe because of my age. I would go to Facebook.

Josh:                  Yeah. Well, I mean from what I can gather, Facebook is becoming at least with my kids who are millennials like you. They think Facebook is a waste of time. They’re all on Instagram, but that’s more around visual stuff for my understanding.

Jean Paul:          Yes, I agree. Absolutely agree with you.

Josh:                  Okay, so once I get someone in my office, how do I recruit them?

Jean Paul:          If you get the person into your office, that person there are key things you have to really look into like definitely benefits. How can you provide competitive benefits with a potential candidate? In an adult way you can do that or try to listen to that person to see what are their priorities. It could be— I went to work four days a week.

I went to work from home. I went to this much for salary. I’m looking for health benefits. I’m looking for dental benefits. Once you can prioritize the key things—as well as an individual basis, what can I do? What are the top priorities? I cannot look to offer to meet that person’s needs. It is a key thing again is how do you get the person to be passionate about what you’re doing? So if you show that you really are concerned about their needs. On a personal level, you can make a huge impact on the person staying with your company.

Josh:                  Okay, so make sense to me. So when I’m interviewing, what should I be looking for?

Jean Paul:          Oh, that’s another amazing question. I think the first thing I would be looking for besides skills is seeing, does that person really likes the day to day tasks? How intimate that person be with the day to day tasks? There’s a way you can absolutely see if the person is into the task you have. Because the worst thing you can do is hire somebody for a task and that person is really not intimate with that task. Eventually, you might be looking for something else.

Maybe under the job for a few months, but in reality, you’ll be able to sustain that person for a long period of time. So if you have to really see like the way the person talks, how genuine the person is, in the test, how passionate the person is about a test. At the same time in other skills. There’s a way when people against how they put the sentences together. You can see if they are really into what you’re talking about. At the same time the experience like how will they ensure the task, the jobs they’ve been doing.

Josh:                  You’re talking about technical skills and then their personal passion but you just talked about me making a video with talking about my company’s culture and values. You didn’t even mention values in the interview process. That makes no sense.

Jean Paul:          I’m sorry. Yeah, absolutely. You need to look into the values as well.

Josh:                  I’m going to submit that if I’m hiring somebody I’m spending 80% of my time seeing if there’s a values match because of there’s not, there’s no way I can have an employees can be successful in my company. That would be my thing as far as, if I’m going to hire somebody effectively for my company, I want to make sure a.) They share the same values I do and the truth is too many employers spend way too much time looking at technical skills somebody brings to the party and now if it’s the right person to join the company.

I use technical skills just as the initial screening is not something I’m going to use to make a decision. I mean, if I have somebody has a real good values match and there’s 70% of the technical skills I need versus somebody who is a 50% match, but 100% of the technical skills I need. I’m not hiring that 100% person and the second. I’m hiring the person that’s almost there technically, but is a better fit culturally.

Jean Paul:          Yes, I absolutely agree. Yes.

Josh:                  When I’m recruiting people, the thing that I’ve learned off recruiting over the years is and I’ve been doing this for a long time now is that you hire for values. Because I can always train you that with the technical skills I need. If I give you the right person in the right place, I can train the technical skills. Now, if I need a programmer, obviously, all the people you’re going to talk to have a certain amount of programming skill. I’m not going to make my decision about who I hire based on if they’re a 10 on programming or a seven on programming. It have to be at least a seven. If not, why bother hiring them? They have to be an eight or 10 on all the values I have in my company.

Jean Paul:          Right on point, yes.  I think I’ve said [inaudible 00:16:19]. When I mentioned that, you have to listen to how the person was set itself at the same time seeing how the person experience experiences. That’s another way of looking at the value as well.

Josh:                  And when I have found over the years, which works really well, I have people telling me stories. Tell me a story about blah, blah, blah, blah, which would allow them to either show me that they have that value, or show me they don’t have that value.

They can’t go to someone to say, how do you feel about personal responsibility? One’s going to say, “Oh, I love personal responsibility is how I live my life.” I might go to somebody and say to them instead, “Tell me about a time in your life where things didn’t go so well? What happened?” They’re going to tell me the story about what happened. The reason they’re going to say, “It was my fault. Here’s what I did to fix it.” Or they’re going to say it was their fault and if they didn’t do that, I wouldn’t have had my problem.

Jean Paul:          Yes, yes.

Josh:                  That is a way to get people to help you understand where their values are, if there’s a good values match or not, at least in my opinion.

Jean Paul:          Because I think you brought up a good but I think we’re on the same line. It’s the fact that I need to listen to your potential candidate. That’s the best way you can see if you have any value [inaudible 00:17:40] in your company. I think we’re on the same track. I definitely [inaudible 00:17:43].

Josh:                  That make sense. Hey, Jean Paul, unfortunately, we are out of time. I’m going to bet some people here going to probably try to find you. I understand your business is really around marketing for medical practices. Is that correct?

Jean Paul:          Yes, it’s absolutely correct. Yes, for small startup medical groups.

Josh:                  Okay, so if you’re a medical group and you happen to be listening to us, how would they find you?

Jean Paul:         Yes, they can try me the first way will be on my own website. It’s on

Josh:                  How do you spell that?

Jean Paul: Then the second way is my business telephone number which is on 505890059.

Josh:                  Okay, cool. I have an offer for you. Also, I have, there’s something that every business owner I know always wants more of and that’s cash. We have a program called Cracking the Cash Flow Code. Before you even think about that, I want you to find out whether you’re on the road to financial freedom. Becoming financially free from your business. I built a little is around this to do this which is kind of fun to take. They’ll take you about seven to 10 minutes to do it.

You just put a few put a few numbers in. You’ll find out where you stand and they get. It’s really easy go to That’s the all one word You click on the big orange button that says get started. You spend about seven minutes putting some information in. You’ll find out whether you’re on the road to reaching financial independence from your business. This is Josh Patrick. We’re with Jean Paul Paulynice. You’re at the Sustainable Business. Thanks a lot for stopping by. I hope to see you back here really soon.

Narrator:          You’ve been listening to The Sustainable Business podcast where we ask the question, “What would it take for your business to still be around a hundred years from now?” If you like what you’ve heard and want more information, please contact Josh Patrick at 802-846-1264 ext 2, or visit us on our website at, or you can send Josh an email at

Thanks for listening. We hope to see you at The Sustainable Business in the near future.

Topics: hiring right people, sustainable business podcast, Sustainable Business, how to hire, Hiring, labor market challenges, small business growth strategies, talent sourcing, jean paul paulynice

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